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Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

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Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

Looking for Advice, Suggestions, Ridicule!

2021-06-06 Engine Light continuously on Error code 42

Last Sat KrZy8 lost all charging, discharged battery to stranded on hiway 1, above Ragged Point, below Gorda.
(Now fixed)

When FJR battery voltage decreases to about 11.2 vdc, the ABS light will come on.
On this ride the ABS light came on, the engine became 'stuttery' at steady throttle.
Shortly thereafter, it quit running and the Engine Light came on.

Error Code 42 shows at key on.
Image

Manual says.. Check 07 and 21 acutations.
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07 is 'Vehicle Speed Pulse'.
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21 is Gear Position Switch.
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Real wheel pulse intitial read 0. Rotated rear wheel by hand and it started to count up
proving rear wheel brake pulse functionality to ECU.
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Neutral = 'On'.
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In gear = 'Off'.
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Per FSM.
Image

Tried to clear error code via #62, no luck.
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D60 shows 0.
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D61 shows 0 too.
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D62 shows the 1 error, the one that won't clear, code 42.
Image

Next Steps

Take off lift, ride it a bit, see if, for some strange reason, it clears
Check ABS fuse
Determ battery, unplug main ECU, replug, connect battery, check
Find ABS ECU connector. I imagine it's deep under the airbox or seat area, disconnect, clean, check
Follow any leads from ForumGurus
Call Ivan's Performance and ask any possibility reflash caused it?
Source used ABS ECU?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by FJRoss »

Check the rear wheel ABS sensor and wires.
If you have a spare rear wheel, you might swap it out and see if the sensor ring is messed up - at least look at the one you have and see if it looks OK.
ABS ECU might have been messed up with the low voltage??

What caused the bike to stop charging??

Edit: I wouldn't look for a replacement ABS ECU until I checked out the sensors and wiring. Did you try and see if ABS was working, despite the error code?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

FJRoss wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:10 pm Check the rear wheel ABS sensor and wires.

If you have a spare rear wheel, you might swap it out and see if the sensor ring is messed up - at least look at the one you have and see if it looks OK.
ABS ECU might have been messed up with the low voltage??
Diagnostic check 7 was good - indicating the ABS pulse generation is working and the ECU sees the pulses.

What caused the bike to stop charging??
I think the 50 amp circuit breaker tripped and didn't reset on the http://www.roadstercycle.com/ harness. (Straight from RR to battery, bypasses OEM circuit wiring). That's a best guess. The rectifier has ~80 VAC at 4k rpm and resistance measurements are spot on. I had replaced the circuit breaker with 60 amp fuse *and* cleaned already clean looking battery terminals *and* disconnected RR connections, cleaned and applied DeOxit. So it could be any of those things?

Edit: I wouldn't look for a replacement ABS ECU until I checked out the sensors and wiring. Did you try and see if ABS was working, despite the error code?
Going to ride KrZy8 today to see...
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by FJRoss »

Did you check the neutral (gear position) switch? Maybe just unplug and replug.
Mine went bad on the '07 but the only symptom was that the green neutral light didn't come on and the bike didn't "know" it was in neutral so couldn't be started unless the clutch was pulled (even in neutral). I didn't get any error message with mine. (No continuity between the neutral contact pad and the wiring harness.)

I see from your photos that the neutral light is on - I assume it isn't on all the time irrespective of the gear you are in?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

FJRoss wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:07 pm Did you check the neutral (gear position) switch? Maybe just unplug and replug.
Mine went bad on the '07 but the only symptom was that the green neutral light didn't come on and the bike didn't "know" it was in neutral so couldn't be started unless the clutch was pulled (even in neutral). I didn't get any error message with mine. (No continuity between the neutral contact pad and the wiring harness.)

I see from your photos that the neutral light is on - I assume it isn't on all the time irrespective of the gear you are in?
The neutral light extinguishes when in gear.. but you gave me an idea to see if the ABS light is on at initial key on...
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by ionbeam »

The Dr. creed: "First do no harm" (Latin: Primum non nocere). Don't do several things at once. Start with the fundamentals you can preform. You have a good start with your Diag. tests. Reset the failure code and see what happens. Don't unplug, molest, wiggle or fiddle stuff until it is the only possible next step.

I had an ES failure code as the result from a battery charging glitch. After some panic, because the code said to replace the rear suspension adjusters I reset the shock and reset the code and all was well. Your results are likely to be the same. It's highly unusual for a serious problem to suddenly show up for no reason at all. Except for it being you, with a history....
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by mcatrophy »

I'm always suspicious of coincidences when a new problem appears on top of another one. Does it return to normal running with the battery in a good state of charge? if so, I would suspect it's ok.

If not, you may have checked these, but ...

According to the manual, Fault Code 42 can be from no signal from the rear wheel sensor, or from a fault in the gearbox neutral switch circuit. (Why Mr Yamaha combines these two into one code I don't know.)

The rear wheel signal is used for the speedometer as well as the ABS system. If the speedometer is working normally then it's not the wheel sensor. If the speedometer isn't working, then the sensor may be faulty or its wiring or connectors are bad. Without the rear wheel signal, the ABS warning light will come on whenever the bike is moving (or may never go off if it comes on when the engine is started).

If the speedometer is operating normally, does the neutral light behave as expected? If not, the neutral switch circuit follows a somewhat tortuous path from the gearbox, through a connector to the Relay Unit behind the front fairing. Diodes within the Relay Unit separate the neutral switch functions, one to the the neutral light, others to the safety interlock system. On the 2006, that relay unit is mounted centre front behind the front faring, possibly vulnerable to corrosion particularly if its rubber covering isn't in place properly.

Pictures from my '06:

General view and blowup showing Relay Unit (Click on image for larger view)
Image Image

I've heard of that relay unit being damaged after someone hit a deer or something similar, you've not been playing with forest rats have you?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by raYzerman »

You may have a dirty gear indicator (neutral) switch... remove it (above the shifter), two screws, pull it out clean the contacts including the brass plunger coming out of the transmission.... there will likely be an accumulation of engine oil..... wipe it all clean.
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

ionbeam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:42 pm The Dr. creed: "First do no harm" (Latin: Primum non nocere). Don't do several things at once. Start with the fundamentals you can preform. You have a good start with your Diag. tests. Reset the failure code and see what happens. Don't unplug, molest, wiggle or fiddle stuff until it is the only possible next step.
Fully agree.

I had an ES failure code as the result from a battery charging glitch. After some panic, because the code said to replace the rear suspension adjusters I reset the shock and reset the code and all was well. Your results are likely to be the same. It's highly unusual for a serious problem to suddenly show up for no reason at all. Except for it being you, with a history....
Yep. That's me all right, Alan. The failure code will *not* reset from Actuation 62. Test 7 and 21 are SAT, e.g. out of gear, in gear, and rear wheel movement.
I think here's another clue - when ignition is switched on, the ABS red light comes on then after 1 or 1.5 seconds, goes out. On the 2013, the ABS light stays illuminated until rear wheel movement is detected. A possible clue?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

raYzerman wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:07 pm You may have a dirty gear indicator (neutral) switch... remove it (above the shifter), two screws, pull it out clean the contacts including the brass plunger coming out of the transmission.... there will likely be an accumulation of engine oil..... wipe it all clean.
Hi Ray, Thanks for reply, can always count on you... Do you think I need to do perform this action even though Actuation 7 showed good results? And I think here's another clue - when ignition is switched on, the ABS red light comes on then after 1 or 1.5 seconds, goes out. On the 2013, the ABS light stays illuminated until rear wheel movement is detected. A possible clue? I seem to recall the 06 was the same, but not sure...
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

mcatrophy wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:48 pm I'm always suspicious of coincidences when a new problem appears on top of another one. Does it return to normal running with the battery in a good state of charge? if so, I would suspect it's ok.
YES, even running under battery dead loss ignition, KrZy8 was running at, uh, 'rally nominal' strong power, given finite battery charge and miles to home.. Until volts dropped under 10 or so... Was cognizant of passing opportunities when voltage was less than 11...:D

If not, you may have checked these, but ...

According to the manual, Fault Code 42 can be from no signal from the rear wheel sensor, or from a fault in the gearbox neutral switch circuit. (Why Mr Yamaha combines these two into one code I don't know.)
Yes. Actuation codes 7 and 21 show SAT from Diag screen. Other possible contributors are bad ABS ECU, shorted or open ABS wiring harness. Research shows error code 42 identical across various Yamaha products including Grizzly 4x4, FZ1.

The rear wheel signal is used for the speedometer as well as the ABS system. If the speedometer is working normally then it's not the wheel sensor. If the speedometer isn't working, then the sensor may be faulty or its wiring or connectors are bad. Without the rear wheel signal, the ABS warning light will come on whenever the bike is moving (or may never go off if it comes on when the engine is started).

Would this also cause the engine light warning light to illuminate? Speedo was not working when riding home, dead loss ignition system, and many fuses pulled. IIRC, pulled ABS, headlight fuses. Turn signals and brake lights remained active. But no speedo indication. IIRC, speedo was still working when engine quit running and I coasted to turnout. I seem to recall the ABS warning light on but not Engine warning light from previous encounters.. But, I'm not positive about that statement... Will ride KrZy8 around Hondarosa tomorrow to see what happens.

If the speedometer is operating normally, does the neutral light behave as expected? If not, the neutral switch circuit follows a somewhat tortuous path from the gearbox, through a connector to the Relay Unit behind the front fairing. Diodes within the Relay Unit separate the neutral switch functions, one to the the neutral light, others to the safety interlock system. On the 2006, that relay unit is mounted centre front behind the front faring, possibly vulnerable to corrosion particularly if its rubber covering isn't in place properly.
Yes, the neutral light behaves correctly. Illuminated when in neutral, off when in gear. And Actuation code 21 shows good too.

Pictures from my '06:

General view and blowup showing Relay Unit (Click on image for larger view)
Image Image

I've heard of that relay unit being damaged after someone hit a deer or something similar, you've not been playing with forest rats have you?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by mcatrophy »

dcarver wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:13 am
mcatrophy wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:48 pm I'm always suspicious of coincidences when a new problem appears on top of another one. Does it return to normal running with the battery in a good state of charge? if so, I would suspect it's ok.
YES, even running under battery dead loss ignition, KrZy8 was running at, uh, 'rally nominal' strong power, given finite battery charge and miles to home.. Until volts dropped under 10 or so... Was cognisant of passing opportunities when voltage was less than 11...:D

The rear wheel signal is used for the speedometer as well as the ABS system. If the speedometer is working normally then it's not the wheel sensor. If the speedometer isn't working, then the sensor may be faulty or its wiring or connectors are bad. Without the rear wheel signal, the ABS warning light will come on whenever the bike is moving (or may never go off if it comes on when the engine is started).

Would this also cause the engine light warning light to illuminate? Speedo was not working when riding home, dead loss ignition system, and many fuses pulled. IIRC, pulled ABS, headlight fuses. Turn signals and brake lights remained active. But no speedo indication. IIRC, speedo was still working when engine quit running and I coasted to turnout. I seem to recall the ABS warning light on but not Engine warning light from previous encounters.. But, I'm not positive about that statement... Will ride KrZy8 around Hondarosa tomorrow to see what happens.
Did the error code 42 occur before you stuttered to a halt, or only after you got going again?

If the speedometer was working when you first ground to a halt, the rear wheel sensor is fine. Since the speed sensor only connects to the ABS Control Unit, pulling the ABS fuse will most likely prevent the speed signal from getting to the Meter Unit, a subsequent error code 42 is then inevitable. Your local test run will confirm this.

Hopefully all you symptoms can be directly attributed to your low battery voltage and your fuse-pulling.

Edited to add - the behaviour of the ABS light from start-up is different for your two variants, the behaviour of each in your post (two up from this) is normal.

I'm sure the fault-finding procedures in the manual were written by people sitting in offices who have no practical experience of working on a defective motorcycle. I'm not saying they are wrong, just that they tend to go for things like "replace the ECU" when the problem might be a trapped wire somewhere, which their diagrams can have no cognisance of. Don't get me wrong, their tests are generally valid, but their suggestions on likely causes seem to be very theoretical.
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by raYzerman »

If you hadn't mentioned error 42, I'd say ride on.... however, only takes a few minutes to clean up the gear switch.... clear the code and see if it comes back... check engine light off yet?

The ABS issues to me are separate.... shouldn't cause CEL.. remove wheel sensors, clean up any aluminum corrosion out of the mounting hole and if any on the sensors, grease the plastic adapter on the sensors (I use silicone grease) and a light film in the hole, reinstall.

After all that, fixed or no?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by FJRoss »

I doubt that it is the gear switch - it is a pretty simple device with a flat surface and six contact pads going to a wire harness. It appears that it is working as it should with proper gear indication and properly functioning neutral light. Easy enough to check for short or discontinuity with an ohmmeter from contact pads to plug. When mine went, there were no error codes.

If it isn't "fixed" by making sure all the fuses are replaced and a short ride, I would expect damage/corrosion etc. with the ABS sensors. Never heard of a failure with the ABS computer but you might be the first...
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by ionbeam »

I've sort of been sitting this one out, waiting for the OP to clear the code and see if it comes back. If he was reading the diag screen and it shows the side stand switch is working, the gear position switch is working, when he spins the rear tire and sees the diag reading change I would assume those things are working. After all, diag shows exactly what the ECU is reading.

Hopefully the OP clears the code before unplugging, wiggling, removing or replacing anything, causing additional problems beyond the original one.

I have seen automotive ABS sensors go bad, but never on a FJR. In the areas that have salted roads during the winter I have seen corrosion start to grow on the ABS sensor which causes it to 'swell' in the ABS housing, eventually crushing the sensor since the housing doesn't budge. Often the corroded ABS sensor has to be drilled out of the housing. But, if diag shows digits that change in proportion to the movement and speed of the rear wheel, the ABS sensor is good.
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by wheatonFJR »

I'm getting the feeling that somebody in New Hampshire is thinking it is a good idea to clear the code.
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

Thanks for all the good advice guys. Here's the latest data. IonBeam's comment make me chuckle :lol:
  • On lift and centerstand, in gear, speedo is working, flashing red ABS light until return to neutral, ABS light extinguishes
  • On wheels, ABS kicks in, is working, front and rear
  • Still can't clear error code.. perhaps an oversight on Ivan's ECU reflash? I mean, how many peeps have run battery low enough to turn on ABS light then engine quits running.
  • So the real issue is, I can't clear the error code. FSM says get to Diagnostic code number 62, then toggle engine stop switch. I have done so many times, it doesn't clear the code.
Plan of Action
  • Unplug main EPU, replug, check results
  • Install OEM ECU, check results
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by ionbeam »

Error codes can be held in either volatile memory or static memory. In volatile memory the code will be reset when the key is cycled ON/OFF, by disconnecting the battery or by unplugging the ECU. Static memory can only be reset by an action from the ECU, power cycling will have no affect. Code 42 is a static memory code and requires an action by the ECU.

In the following excerpted tables from the FSM, note the right side column for REINSTATEMENT METHOD for code 42. Have you done this? (roughly 13 mph to 19 mph) The code won't clear until this action has taken place. Since your readings from diag shows everything to be working all you should need to do is follow the Reinstatement Method and the code should be able to reset.

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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by dcarver »

Dr. Ionbeam, you ROCK!

Here I was feeling all smug thinking I'd found a problem with Ivan's flash.. installed OEM ECU, no engine light. Reinstall flashed ECU, engine light. Was leaning toward perhaps a bug in Ivans flash, then read your post.. :)

My test ride was in the dirt at the Hondrosa, probably hit the correct speed range, but not for long. Just rode in first gear, tested ABS. So maybe it didn't have adequate time at speed range to reset.

I wonder if it would reset while running on center stand?
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Re: Error Code 42 (KrZy8) Gen II

Post by wetwolf »

If you run it on the centerstand, it will prolly throw a code for no signal from front wheel sensor!
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