Burning a lil oil....

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Hppants
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Burning a lil oil....

Post by Hppants » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:01 pm

OK, my bike has got 65,xxx miles on it, and its consuming a little oil. Between the low mark on the sight glass and the high is about 1/3 of a quart. At 3,500 miles since the last oil change, I'm about 1/2 way down to the low mark (about 1/6th of a quart). This has coincidentally started about or nearly after my last valve check (52,xxx miles). I adjusted both cams to the loosest 1/3 of the spec range.

I'm not overly worried about it. Definitely gonna ride more, stress less. Just wondering if anyone has experienced similar?
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by wetwolf » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:18 pm

Mine tends to burn a little if I use synthetic, regular dino, not so much.
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by wheatonFJR » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:28 pm

My 04 burned a little oil. It ran like a scalded ape but the previous owner ran it in a northern salted street winter and I think it wore the seals. I only noticed it on the really fun days in the upper rpm ranges.

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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by bigjohnsd » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:59 pm

Hppants wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:01 pm
OK, my bike has got 65,xxx miles on it, and its consuming a little oil. Between the low mark on the sight glass and the high is about 1/3 of a quart. At 3,500 miles since the last oil change, I'm about 1/2 way down to the low mark (about 1/6th of a quart). This has coincidentally started about or nearly after my last valve check (52,xxx miles). I adjusted both cams to the loosest 1/3 of the spec range.

I'm not overly worried about it. Definitely gonna ride more, stress less. Just wondering if anyone has experienced similar?
My '13 would sometimes consume about 1/3 of the sight glass worth of T6 over 5-6,000 miles.
I had similar mileage when we parted ways.

When I rode Festars 08 in OZ it used about 1/2-3/4 of a Liter over the trip, we topped it up. He was surprised it used any oil. I attributed it to all the engine braking I was doing.
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by raYzerman » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:05 pm

If you are judging oil consumption via sight glass, be aware of the inherent variation if you are not anally consistent. Warm the bike up for x minutes, let cool down for x minutes, assuming you used the same oil last time as this time, ambient temp, etc. Use a stop watch if necessary to be consistent. Confirm you are really seeing a drop in the sight glass (I hate them, gimme an old fashioned dipstick where I can check the oil cold).
The only "seals" that can wear are the valve stem seals, go very slowly with mileage. Piston rings are the other seals. Minor oil consumption is a good thing, as in I wouldn't worry about a couple of ounces between oil changes. Valve check/reshim should have nothing to do with it. This is more of a ride more, worry less situation IMHO.
Engine braking at high revs could maybe suck some oil past the valve seals due to high vacuum over an extended decel.
IF you suspect oil burning, have someone follow you, rev high to no load, decelerate to idle. Start off accelerate, any oil sucked past the valve seals will come out the exhaust as blue smoke. Repeat a couple of times to be sure, a little black (fuel) maybe, not likely blue. A buncha blue, then we'll talk about your very old high mileage possibly carboned up FJR, chances are we won't need that talk. IF it's that bad, then take the air filter out and see if any oil film of any significance inside the airbox (there is a crankcase breather hose).
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by ionbeam » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:10 am

Step into the wayback machine with me...

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Set the date for 2003 - 2004. A small number of FJRs began to experience a noise that was dubbed as ticking, a Ticker. The top of the engine would make a noise similar to forks being rattled in a drawer. Angst developed among the owners, theories abounded. Yamaha stepped in with a fix for the valves and stem seals. But the fix wasn't a fix after all. After a drawn out process that caused duress and mental anguish Yamaha now proclaimed a new fix. Yamaha expounds: Valve guides are trixie things to design. Too loose and oil bypasses the the guides and seals. Too tight and you get oil starvation resulting in guide wear and valve stem wear. A very few of the early FJRs had tight valve guides and stem seals. This caused oil starvation, which in turn allowed excessive guide and stem wear. The valve stems then rattled in the guides creating the dreaded Ticking noise. Yamaha's fix was to slightly loosen the valve guides and stem seals, at the cost of maybe a little oil consumption.

Perhaps Yamaha went back and revisited this situation again resulting in a tiny bit more of oil consumption. My '04 had zero oil consumption. My '15 might have a tiny bit of consumption but it is so small that no correction is needed between changes. Apparently the oil bypass is low enough that the engines pass emissions testing. Well, up until 2021 in Europe where the FJR is now dead due to being unable to meet the new emission standards.

Before returning to 2020, consider if there are any investments you would like to make or any bets you would like to place...
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by bill lumberg » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:14 am

I think your attitude toward it is a good one. Thst said, neither of mine has burned or lost a drop of oil. Interested.
Hppants wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:01 pm
OK, my bike has got 65,xxx miles on it, and its consuming a little oil. Between the low mark on the sight glass and the high is about 1/3 of a quart. At 3,500 miles since the last oil change, I'm about 1/2 way down to the low mark (about 1/6th of a quart). This has coincidentally started about or nearly after my last valve check (52,xxx miles). I adjusted both cams to the loosest 1/3 of the spec range.

I'm not overly worried about it. Definitely gonna ride more, stress less. Just wondering if anyone has experienced similar?
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by blind squirrel » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:12 am

Hppants wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:01 pm
OK, my bike has got 65,xxx miles on it, and its consuming a little oil. Between the low mark on the sight glass and the high is about 1/3 of a quart. At 3,500 miles since the last oil change, I'm about 1/2 way down to the low mark (about 1/6th of a quart). This has coincidentally started about or nearly after my last valve check (52,xxx miles). I adjusted both cams to the loosest 1/3 of the spec range.

I'm not overly worried about it. Definitely gonna ride more, stress less. Just wondering if anyone has experienced similar?
Dump it and buy a new one. ;)
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by raYzerman » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:41 pm

blind squirrel wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:12 am
Hppants wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:01 pm
OK, my bike has got 65,xxx miles on it, and its consuming a little oil. Between the low mark on the sight glass and the high is about 1/3 of a quart. At 3,500 miles since the last oil change, I'm about 1/2 way down to the low mark (about 1/6th of a quart). This has coincidentally started about or nearly after my last valve check (52,xxx miles). I adjusted both cams to the loosest 1/3 of the spec range.

I'm not overly worried about it. Definitely gonna ride more, stress less. Just wondering if anyone has experienced similar?
Dump it and buy a new one. ;)
Dammit, why didn't I take the other approach..... maybe coulda got it cheap.......
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by FJRoss » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:10 pm

Neither my 07 nor my 2011 has used a measurable amount of oil between changes. Got to the point where I rarely even checked between changes. Almost 200,000 miles on the '07 when I sold it.
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by Uncle Hud » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:12 am

You're supposed to put oil in these things?!?!
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by Hppants » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:10 pm

I am checking it consistently, on the center stand, on level ground, and at least 10 minutes after shut off (to allow everything to settle). Again, none to really worry - it's just a PITA to now have to pack a small 6 oz. Nalgene bottle of oil on the long trips. However, that is considerably cheaper than buying a new motorcycle. :)
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by raYzerman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:13 pm

Well, if you're gonna do that "at least" thing, eliminate the variable and check it the next morning, cold.
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by blind squirrel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:06 pm

Hppants wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:10 pm
I am checking it consistently, on the center stand, on level ground, and at least 10 minutes after shut off (to allow everything to settle). Again, none to really worry - it's just a PITA to now have to pack a small 6 oz. Nalgene bottle of oil on the long trips. However, that is considerably cheaper than buying a new motorcycle. :)
My RT burned oil. I had to keep a quart with me on the bike all the time.

It wasn't bad when I was doing freeway riding. I knew I would have to add some for sure after a day in the twisties.

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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by Hppants » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:48 pm

Here's what she looks like this morning (cold engine), 4,050 miles since the oil change and top off at the high mark:

Image

On the previous oil change, it burned about twice that amount in 3500 miles. That cycle was laden with mountain twisties, including a LOT of engine braking.

Next valve check, I'll examine and change the plugs. Otherwise, it's pack a 6-oz nalgene bottle of oil in the top box on trips, and .... ride on, man...
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by ionbeam » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:26 pm

Hppants wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:48 pm
...On the previous oil change, it burned about twice that amount in 3500 miles. That cycle was laden with mountain twisties, including a LOT of engine braking...
After your next oil change, check the oil level again the next morning when it's cold so you have a solid baseline.

The oil is either going past the valve stem seals or past the rings. In my previous post I detailed why Yamaha has slightly loosened the stem seals and this could slightly increase oil consumption. The FJR engine also has a tendency for the piston rings to stick. A compression check or leak-down test were often the first time someone discovered sticking rings. For a few bucks, it may be worthwhile running a couple of doses of Yamaha Ring Free (or equivalent) through your tank. Can't hurt, may help. Read the dosing instructions, Ring Free is highly concentrated and only takes an oz. or two per tank full.
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by raYzerman » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:33 am

My understanding of the Gen1 "Ticker" phenomenon was valve guides that had excessive clearance (manufacturing defect of a certain date range) so the valves were a sloppy fit and that naturally would "tick" and wear out valve seals = burning oil as it gets sucked past the seals on decel. I don't recall there was any change to the valve seals, it is still an old part number starting with 3P6......
As for sticking rings, shouldn't happen unless you are burning oil from the situation above... which also can result in a crud build-up on the valve stem, which eventually will keep it from travelling completely to the closed position (hard to start when cold, intake valve stuck open).
What you will also find is the vast majority of the fuel conditioners contain a good percentage of naptha... a slow acting solvent that will dissolve gummy stuff and oily stuff (e.g., a two-stroke)... but nothing dissolves carbon. I doubt Pants bike has been ridden like grandma, so not too worried there.
Nevetheless, I would run a fuel conditioner occasionally. Again, the only way to tell if you are really burning oil is to be anally consistent about the "sight glass method" of checking oil level. One very consistent way is to do it cold after sitting overnight for full drainback, and assuming your oil filter has a good anti-drainback valve. Caveat, if you initially fill to the top mark on the sight glass, your cold level should be at the very top if not over the top of the sight glass.
A couple or three of ounces burned over an oil change interval is absolutely nothing to be concerned about.
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by Steel_Gin » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:29 pm

Hppants wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:10 pm
I am checking it consistently, on the center stand, on level ground, and at least 10 minutes after shut off (to allow everything to settle). Again, none to really worry - it's just a PITA to now have to pack a small 6 oz. Nalgene bottle of oil on the long trips. However, that is considerably cheaper than buying a new motorcycle. :)
Make sure your bottles are clearly marked!! Getting them confused would be very bad!! :D
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by Hppants » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:21 pm

Roger that - Me thinks that my fajita steak and onions fried down in 10W40 Yamalube would NOT be too tasty!!
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Re: Burning a lil oil....

Post by HotRodZilla » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:40 pm

Hppants wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:10 pm
I am checking it consistently, on the center stand, on level ground, and at least 10 minutes after shut off (to allow everything to settle). Again, none to really worry - it's just a PITA to now have to pack a small 6 oz. Nalgene bottle of oil on the long trips. However, that is considerably cheaper than buying a new motorcycle. :)
If you're burning so much oil on a ride that you need to carry extra with you, something is wrong. My bikes oil level changes less than a mm between changes. I check it every now and then but it is rare. If I had to carry a bottle of oil with me to feel secure, I'd either trade it in or try to fix it. No way you should have to add in between oil changes. The only vehicles that require that are beaters with bad valves and rings and dirt bikes. My money is on you creating a problem that isn't really a problem. You are probably being too anal!
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