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Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

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Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by Intech » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm

bill lumberg wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:18 pm
I had to give up my wynpro Bigfoot on the 2018. Too much scraping. I’d do a couple of these.
You definitely need to check your suspension then. Or that the center stand is staying up.
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Re: FJRiders.com Kickstand Plate Discussion

Post by bill lumberg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:25 pm

Suspension is good. Stand stays up. Ground the leading edge off into the screw heads. It only drug once or twice with the A. The ES, even set on proper preload and Hard, is a bit lower, and hooning in the mountains became incompatible mit der Bigfoot.
Intech wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm
bill lumberg wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:18 pm
I had to give up my wynpro Bigfoot on the 2018. Too much scraping. I’d do a couple of these.
You definitely need to check your suspension then. Or that the center stand is staying up.
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Re: FJRiders.com Kickstand Plate Discussion

Post by Intech » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:49 pm

Well, I have a '15 ES and I may have touched it once. I have been known to "hoon" too! I wonder what is different?
bill lumberg wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:25 pm
Suspension is good. Stand stays up. Ground the leading edge off into the screw heads. It only drug once or twice with the A. The ES, even set on proper preload and Hard, is a bit lower, and hooning in the mountains became incompatible mit der Bigfoot.
Intech wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm
bill lumberg wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:18 pm
I had to give up my wynpro Bigfoot on the 2018. Too much scraping. I’d do a couple of these.
You definitely need to check your suspension then. Or that the center stand is staying up.
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Re: FJRiders.com Kickstand Plate Discussion

Post by bill lumberg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:00 pm

Maybe I’m not a dwarf. Or maybe even setting the preload to two riders isn’t enough preload for a lumberjack. I refuse to admit that i could possibly need to set it to “two up with luggage” riding solo, even with three bags.
Intech wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:49 pm
Well, I have a '15 ES and I may have touched it once. I have been known to "hoon" too! I wonder what is different?
bill lumberg wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:25 pm
Suspension is good. Stand stays up. Ground the leading edge off into the screw heads. It only drug once or twice with the A. The ES, even set on proper preload and Hard, is a bit lower, and hooning in the mountains became incompatible mit der Bigfoot.
Intech wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm


You definitely need to check your suspension then. Or that the center stand is staying up.
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Re: FJRiders.com Kickstand Plate Discussion

Post by raYzerman » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:26 pm

A little off the kickstand plate discussion.......... suspension as it relates to touching down hard parts...
I know a rider who I'm guessing is 200lbs or a bit more dials in two-up with luggage when going twisty riding, and of course, the ride height changes (higher) with more preload. The ES has a 685 lbf/in. spring which (depending on whose spring rate table you use) is for a lightweight rider, e.g., for a 160-190 or 190-225 lb rider (w/o gear) one should have an 850-900 lbf/in. spring rate. So, a one-up no luggage isn't going to hold you up at proper ride height, i.e., sags too much, unless you dial in significant preload. FJR's have a compromise suspension, whether ES or A, each a different compromise in their own way.

It is not known how much preload each of the settings adds on an ES, and the correct way to determine how much you need is to measure the sag at each of the settings. I'm guessing we're talking two-up no luggage or maybe w/luggage. Perhaps talk to those who ride aggressively and don't have a side/center stand touch-down issue, try their preload settings. If you find two-up w/luggage too harsh, then I'd suggest a 190/55 rear tire which will raise the rear a healthy 1/4" due to its larger diameter (I use one, won't go back to a 180, the bike handles better too).

Now we're not talking about damping settings, that just controls the speed at which the suspension moves up and down (compresses and rebounds) as you go into twisty corners, hit bumps or undulations, etc.. Spring rate is about holding you and the bike up properly.

The ES damping system is also a compromise in itself, no ability to separate front and rear, or compression and rebound. A couple of twisty type riders have told me if they get the damping set to their preference on the forks, the rear is perhaps too firm. It's whatever Yamaha put in there as a formula... I could only suggest a heavier fork oil for the front, e.g., 7.5W if that is the case, but you'll need special tools (at tech day?).

The ES has great fork springs with a rate of 1.0 lbf/in., which is good for most up to say the low 200 lb-ers.

For reference, my RaceTech shock has an 850 lbf/in. spring with a little preload dialed in for my 200 lbs. It's about perfect.
BTW, I've found the Penske spring rate recommendations pretty close, the RaceTech shock spring recommendations are too much as I found from experience. Their fork spring recommendations however are quite good.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by bill lumberg » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:57 am

I have found, for a 225# rider, with bags and a top case, running the bike through its’ paces on US 129 or similar tight twisties, nothing drags unless you bolt something aftermarket on (ref 2018ES). The illuminating fact from my personal experiences between A and ES is that I ran my Bigfoot for years with the A and never ground it down. It didn’t make it 3 months on the ES. As Intech and ray point out, a well dialed-in A, for those roads and my load, may be closer to where an ES is at max selectable preload. I should note that the bike handles great two up with full bags set at two riders with luggage. If it’s dry enough, I many have to do some max preload thrashing this weekend. Because science.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by Intech » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:30 am

Just for reference, I have the heavier oil in the forks. When riding in the twisties I have the front set STD +3 and the rear 2 up with luggage.

Running the Roan Mt. loop at EOM 2 up I touched the center stand in a gravity cavity. I actually thing the force of hitting the hole caused it to drop a little. Never touched anything else and I wasn't babying it.

I hate to admit that my weight is >200 lbs too. The only other factor would be riding position. Do you get out of the seat at all?
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by bungie4 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:59 am

I don't see how it's an issue. My plate radiused itself after a few runs down the dragon.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by wheatonFJR » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:30 am

Why am I grinding hard parts? I don't know...I was concussed.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by raYzerman » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am

Gravity cavities will do it... all I can suggest is the 190 rear tire and leaning forward on the tank, shift yourself a touch to the inside of the turn and keep the bike more upright...... or whatever Bungie learned at the Lee Parks skool. I would have also thought the footpeg feelers would have touched before anything else.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by bill lumberg » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:56 am

I ground those sharp and removed them long ago. I haven’t run feelers in years.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by bungie4 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:05 am

raYzerman wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am
Gravity cavities will do it... all I can suggest is the 190 rear tire and leaning forward on the tank, shift yourself a touch to the inside of the turn and keep the bike more upright...... or whatever Bungie learned at the Lee Parks skool. I would have also thought the footpeg feelers would have touched before anything else.
Bungie learned to slow the fuck down off a closed course.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by wheatonFJR » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:08 am

bungie4 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:05 am
raYzerman wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am
Gravity cavities will do it... all I can suggest is the 190 rear tire and leaning forward on the tank, shift yourself a touch to the inside of the turn and keep the bike more upright...... or whatever Bungie learned at the Lee Parks skool. I would have also thought the footpeg feelers would have touched before anything else.
Bungie learned to slow the fuck down off a closed course.
I slowed down, it didn't do me any effen good. I'm just gonna go my usual slow self, no slower.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by jwilly » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:15 am

Nothing makes my day like a bunch of old guys talking about grinding hard parts...
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by bungie4 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:09 am

jwilly wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:15 am
Nothing makes my day like a bunch of old guys talking about grinding hard parts...
See what hanging with Daryll has done to you.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by Cav47 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:41 pm

I had a similar situation regarding a ground down kickstand plate that was from a Gen 1 and then moved to a Gen 3. It was touching down some occasionally around minor twisty rides here in Illinois. I ground it down some on my bench grinder to try and alleviate the scraping. I was not touching anything else. Never really do much of that now that I have my body position right. My settings are pretty much Hard + and 2up regardless of load. The only time I ever got to 2 plus luggage + Max is when Kenzie and I were loaded up in Maine. WIfe weighs more than daughter, so I use 2 up then also. But I am not riding spirited with the wifey on the back. And the ride becomes a little harsh for the wife around here on what Illinois calls roads.

I had the same set of Delkavics on both bikes and the Gen 1 allowed for the plate just fine. When moving the Delks and installing the plate, I noticed that the kickstand was not being allowed to move into the full up position. I tried to manipulate that to no avail. I figured that an upcoming trip to Arkansas would provide some self adjusting fitment as grinding on the plate while the bike was on the center stand was not very scientific and might look like crap. Well, let me say that the plate was still attached in St. Robert Missouri when I got gas, it was no longer with me at the Peel Ferry when I stopped. I am not sure what I noticed first, the smell of burnt rubber, the sound of an engine cooling down, or missing aluminum. I now carry the old plastic plate that Wayne had at an EOM. I will replace that one with the fancy new ones that Willy is making when they go into production.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by bill lumberg » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:24 pm

I didn’t have much of a problem with my Bigfoot until I started riding with the wrong crowd...
jwilly wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:15 am
Nothing makes my day like a bunch of old guys talking about grinding hard parts...
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by bill lumberg » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:28 pm

To be fair, I never had a problem with the suspension, and the Bigfoot grinding in the twisties didn’t bother me. It was only when I’d ground through enough of the screw and washers holding it on that I pulled it. Didn’t want to give a surprise to someone behind me. :)
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by Allen_C » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:35 pm

The the road gets twisty, I change my ES settings to 2+luggage, to give a little more clearance, and Hard+3 to keep the bouncing to a minimum. I'm 195# and don't ride with side cases or tail case, unless I'm traveling from home to an event or reverse. Also, I've started getting my ass off the seat the past couple of years in the twisties and that requires the bike to lean less so there is less scraping too.
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Re: Suspension - why am I grinding hard parts - SPLIT FROM KICKSTAND PLATE DISCUSSION

Post by jwilly » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:38 pm

bill lumberg wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:24 pm
I didn’t have much of a problem with my Bigfoot until I started riding with the wrong crowd...
jwilly wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:15 am
Nothing makes my day like a bunch of old guys talking about grinding hard parts...
I'm just following...

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