Engine grenaded...

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Intech
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by Intech » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:26 pm

BruinFJRguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:19 pm
Sorry to hear about the bro's misfortune with the grenading.

Cam chain tensioner replaced at 76k? Is that normal? Come to think of it, maybe the 07/08 had a weak cam chain tensioner and lots of people swapped them?

Do the later models need a CCT so soon?
It was just done as inexpensive insurance. I will find out if it was a waste this weekend.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by ionbeam » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:59 pm

Just curious, how is the engine grenaded? No compression? Frozen and won't turn? Bad noises from low? Bad noises from top? Simply won't run? Ya get the point.

Leaking rubber couplers between the TB and engine intake can burn and hole pistons. Air box issues or botched CA emissions removal can let enough dirt into the engine to kill it. An intake air leak can overheat and burn a piston. Protracted running with incorrect mechanical timing can burn pistons. Oiling issues will cause plain bearing failure but it usually is proceeded by a nasty rod knock. Wrong spark plugs can cause problems like excessive heat or get broken by the piston, then the bits 'n pieces of the plug go everyplace you wish they didn't. How ever rare, cooling passages can get plugged and overheat a cylinder. Wrong electrical ignition timing will definitely burn pistons and cylinder head. Head gaskets can fail compression or internal coolant leaks.

The fact that you see metal in the oil is unusual in modern engines. No coolant in the oil? Typically metal in the oil is piston ring failure, cylinder wall damage or spun plain bearings.

I know someone that had a CCT failure which totally destroyed the cams, valves, guides and the cylinder head. No metal in the oil. The wrist pins and crank were plastigauged and there was no damage. The crank run-out was within spec. The rods were straight. The lower rotating components of the engine are apparently really tough.

Edit to add:
Engine is seized
:oops:
Normally I would hope that he simply had a clutch that failed to disengage for some reason... When in neutral as well as in gear with the clutch pulled in, does the rear wheel turn freely?
Last edited by ionbeam on Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by wheatonFJR » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:18 pm

BruinFJRguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:19 pm
Sorry to hear about the bro's misfortune with the grenading.

Cam chain tensioner replaced at 76k? Is that normal? Come to think of it, maybe the 07/08 had a weak cam chain tensioner and lots of people swapped them?

Do the later models need a CCT so soon?
Before Sauron turned another place turned into FJR Mordor, some good people provided good info on early CCT's and the replacement CCTs...mebbe a visit to Mordor will gather the secret information requested...
Last edited by wheatonFJR on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by ionbeam » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:30 pm

BruinFJRguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:19 pm
...Cam chain tensioner replaced at 76k? Is that normal?...Do the later models need a CCT so soon?
By '06 the CCT had been redesigned and the new part put the problems to rest. The new CCT is the same style but the shape of the new part addressed the extension length of the adjuster plunger (shortens it) which also took care of the spring tension issue (less travel distance to dissipate spring force). AFAIK, there has not been any issue caused by the new CCT design.

Any newer CCT from '06 until at least the '12 model years have a paint dot (of any color) to indicate it is the new design. Dunno if the later model years still have the dot, but they surely have the updated CCT.

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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by BruinFJRguy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:47 pm

wheatonFJR wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:18 pm
BruinFJRguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:19 pm
Sorry to hear about the bro's misfortune with the grenading.

Cam chain tensioner replaced at 76k? Is that normal? Come to think of it, maybe the 07/08 had a weak cam chain tensioner and lots of people swapped them?

Do the later models need a CCT so soon?
Before Sauron turned another place turned into FJR Mordor, some good people provided good on early CCT's and the replacement CCTs...mebbe a visit to Mordor will gather the secret information requested...
Lol...what? :D

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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by silverback » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:59 pm

Siezed and metal in the oil usually means very catastrophic failure. Like it puked it's guts out. That usually isnt caused by cams, even interference engines. Once the valves bend it looses power. Might knock a hole in the piston, but usually the engine will still turn.

Siezure usually indicates a heat problem. Pistons expand faster than cylinders and bind up.

Metal in the oil and siezed probably is something that came loose and jammed in somewhere.

Either way it sucks.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by Powerman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:26 pm

Sucks a big one.

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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by NTXFJR » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:26 pm

Oil pump / pump drive chain failure maybe?
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by bungie4 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:52 pm

silverback wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:59 pm
Siezure usually indicates a heat problem. Pistons expand faster than cylinders and bind up.
Yup. I was given a self propelled mower that heat seizes just about every time I use it. If you shut it off before your done, don't expect to start it again until it fully cooled off and releases the Piston.

I'm hoping it wears itself enough to increase the ring and Piston gap before it grenades itself.

Oh ya. Whomever came up with the idea for lawns was an f'n Jackwagon.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by raYzerman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:34 am

Alan, the CCT redesign actually occurred late '07 model, with the physical shape and dots....
Bob, any Gen2 or 3 engine (5 speed) will work. Be patient for a good used engine on ebay, I got a 2014 with 13k on it for the '06 project bike and negotiated the price. If a Gen3 you will have to change the valve cover and the electronics on the engine with the '07's. No biggie.
If you need engine parts, I have the '06 engine in a basket... except I'll be keeping the electronic bits and the valve cover. This engine had poor compression at 90k from never been rev'd over 3500... what a waste.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by FJRoss » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:46 pm

11,763 mile 2009 "AE" motor on eBay - free shipping and $977

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-YAMAHA-FJ ... SwS7Na38ig
Just have to swap a couple of parts (i.e. shift drum) out of the dead '07 motor

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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by bungie4 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:13 pm

Is it just me or do most used engines seem to come out of AE's?
WWPD.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by wheatonFJR » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:39 pm

bungie4 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:52 pm
...Oh ya. Whomever came up with the idea for lawns was an f'n Jackwagon.
bungie4 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:13 pm
Is it just me or do most used engines seem to come out of AE's?
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by bungie4 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:43 pm

wheatonFJR wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:39 pm
bungie4 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:52 pm
...Oh ya. Whomever came up with the idea for lawns was an f'n Jackwagon.
bungie4 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:13 pm
Is it just me or do most used engines seem to come out of AE's?
I see we have found our philosopher king; our own Jack Handy of the FJR universe.
Ah, my first disciple. Man, are you gonna be sorry.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by ionbeam » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:17 pm

bungie4 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:43 pm
wheatonFJR wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:39 pm
bungie4 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:52 pm
...Oh ya. Whomever came up with the idea for lawns was an f'n Jackwagon.
bungie4 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:13 pm
Is it just me or do most used engines seem to come out of AE's?
I see we have found our philosopher king; our own Jack Handy of the FJR universe.
Ah, my first disciple. Man, are you gonna be sorry.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you’re a mile away and you have their shoes.

Edit to add: :threadjack:
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by raYzerman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:29 pm

bungie4 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:13 pm
Is it just me or do most used engines seem to come out of AE's?
Not when I was looking........
Keep yer stick on the ice........... (Red Green)
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by Intech » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:12 am

Here are all the symptoms:
David was riding at about 40 MPH and felt the bike lose power and then just quit. He pulled the clutch in and coasted to a stop. He got it into neutral and attempted to start it. He had power and heard the starter solenoid, but it would not turn over. He got it home and drained the oil and found metal shavings. No coolant. David removed the valve cover and found everything good. Cam chain still tight and nothing visibly wrong.

I arrived Friday evening. I removed the spark plugs and put a socket on the crank bolt. The engine turned over easily, however there was a large amount of gas in the #2 cylinder that shot out when I turned it. So, the engine was not seized. I then put it in 5th gear and turned the engine over with the rear wheel easily.

Saturday we decided to go ahead with the engine removal. Found a large amount of gas in the exhaust pipes. What is that a symptom of? How could so much unburned gas get through like that? After getting the engine out I inspected what I could see of the valves through the intake and exhaust ports. No visible damage. Beginning to think it is one of the cylinders. Suspecting #2 as it was the one loaded with gas. We spent most of the day getting the engine out and I had all the bolts loose to split the case. Had to get home yesterday, so no work done. David will spilt the case and be able to see if there is any issues with the transmission.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by bungie4 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:57 am

IMO. No coolant, engine hot seized. After cooling off, you are able to turn the engine over once again. As for the unburnt fuel, thats a bit of a head scratcher.
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Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by SLK50 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:16 am

I think Bob meant there was no coolant in the oil.

Personally, I think you’re chasing the wrong rabbit.
A cylinder fuel of gas has nothing to do with the bottom end.

I suspect a dirty or clogged injector that allowed fuel to be
sucked into the cylinder unchecked.
Could be related to the deposits found in the intake tracts.
If not the injectors perhaps the CPU ( CMU? ) is wonky
and not properly firing the injectors.

I would start with a close and careful examination of
the injectors. HTH. Good luck.

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Re: RE: Re: Engine grenaded...

Post by Intech » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:30 am

SLK50 wrote:I think Bob meant there was no coolant in the oil.

Personally, I think you’re chasing the wrong rabbit.
A cylinder fuel of gas has nothing to do with the bottom end.

I suspect a dirty or clogged injector that allowed fuel to be
sucked into the cylinder unchecked.
Could be related to the deposits found in the intake tracts.
If not the injectors perhaps the CPU ( CMU? ) is wonky
and not properly firing the injectors.

I would start with a close and careful examination of
the injectors. HTH. Good luck.
You are correct. I meant no coolant in the oil. Will look at the injectors too. All that raw fuel maybe put a vapor lock on the engine.?

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