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Tapered Bearing Torque ?

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Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by Powerman »

Heated, froze, used a BFH to seat the bearing. Got some serious air and seated them more.
Tightened steering again old school by hand. Put on some miles since then.

Got the real spanner coming and plan to torque it, and change the ignition switch.
Seating and running torque different than stock balls ??
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by Hppants »

Interested in hearing this. I've got tapered bearings (were installed when I bought the bike with 1500 miles on it) and I've got the spanner. I've torqued my steering head twice to OEM spec thus far, and felt no ill results. But your thread has got me thinking that maybe I made an incorrect assumption.

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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by gixxerjasen »

Interested as well, but pending thread jack...
Hppants wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:01 am (were installed when I bought the bike with 1500 miles on it)
Why do people pull bearings out of a brand new bike and replace them with tapered bearings? I replaced my 80k mile worn out bearings with tapered bearings and I don't see what all the fuss is about, certainly not good enough to pay serious money or go through the PIA process of replacing brand new bearings. I see this often for folks with brand new bikes besides just Pant's bike.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by Festus »

Mine developed a head shake at 18,000 miles (roughly), so I replaced them.

I personally didn't use the torque specs people posted because I found them to be wrong for my bike. When I torqued it to 1 value they were still so loose it wasn't funny. When I went up to where someone else suggested, they were so tight my bars wouldn't turn. The method I ended up using was to use feel. I wanted the bars to turn without the wheel on with some slight resistance, almost where you are saying "That's a little too tight". By the time you hang the front wheel back on, it's going to make it feel loose. So if you can pivot it back and forth really freely with no drag on it without the wheel on, then it's probably going to be too loose once the wheel is on. On the other hand, if you can feel the bearing stopping and starting, then it's too tight.

Your mileage may vary but that's my approach. Tapered rollers want a preload so it should have a little load on it. Don't underestimate how much it will free up when that front wheel goes on.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by bigjohnsd »

https://www.timken.com/wp-content/uploa ... hure-1.pdf

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VZluHuOJyk[/youtube]

https://www.machinedesign.com/mechanica ... r-bearings

All Balls says the following: "Tighten the adjusting nut with a pin spanner. Follow any specific adjusting nut instructions in the service manual." Thus implying to follow the OEM directions.

All Balls then says: "General Adjusting Nut Information – Tighten the adjusting nut securely. Turn the steering stem lock-to-lock several times to seat the bearings. Loosen the adjusting nut 1/4 to 1/2 half turn. Adjust the nut so the steering moves correctly. The adjusting nut should be tight enough so that any vertical movement is eliminated. However, it should not be so tight as to cause binding or require excessive force to turn." In my experience, this is the key!
Note: Some models have specific initial and final torque specs or tightening sequences for the adjusting nut."


https://www.cyclepedia.com/manuals/onli ... g-upgrade/

This video shows some other considerations when installing Tapered Roller Bearings in your motorcycle.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f08K-O0qDe0[/youtube]
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by silverback »

The answer to this question lies in the 50th Ford 9" diff pinion preload setting you do.

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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by ionbeam »

Raise the front wheel and ideally have an assistant to help keep the bike stable. Kneel or sit in front of the motorcycle with the front wheel pointing forward. Put your hands on the bottom of the front forks and pull and push backwards. There should be no feeling of free play. Now slowly turn the forks from lock to lock. There should be no notchy feeling. There should be some small force necessary to get the forks to turn but there should be very slight resistance to turning once started. Hoses and wire looms can add to the perceived force needed to turn the forks. In theory, passing these tests indicates the fork bearings are good and adjusted correctly.

My mid '80s Honda FSM said the tech should stand on the right side of the motorcycle, take a gauge such as an accurate fish spring scale and hook it to the LEFT fork with the front wheel straight forward. Pull until the forks move to the right stop. Read the gauge. I'm no recall for the exact value but something like 4# to 8 # of pressure to get the forks to swing to the right lock was acceptable. Repeat from the left side while hooked to the RIGHT fork. FWIW.

In a parallel universe there was a discussion about steering head bearings, you can read about it and follow the links here unless the wielder of the thunder stick in this universe has banned you.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by wheatonFJR »

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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by raYzerman »

What Ionbeam describes is the older way (and proper IMHO) that should have been in an FJR FSM. First, all FJR's need this early in life and likely we wouldn't be talking as much about tapered rollers. I find the Yammy spec to be too light and if followed why some have head shake issues, and the OEM ball bearings are quite adequate. Head shake issues are mostly due to some other cause, like unevenly worn tires or certain tread patterns (no PR4 fronts for me) or even loose suspension settings. Sure tapered rollers are more robust and can mask a bunch of that, but IMHO nothing wrong with the balls if adjusted "properly". I've not had any hint of a shake issue on two FJR's now over 10 years. I snug mine more than Yammy's 13 ft. lbs. everybody seems hung up on, more like 15-18. Try that and see if your issues alleviate themselves.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by Powerman »

"50th Ford 9" diff pinion preload setting you do" Not again in this life if possible!

I won them in an EOM raffle so I put them on.

I remember making a tool with threaded rod and pulling in the races. I don't recommend 18" of air under both wheels, but nothing hit. Got sucked onto a little bridge over a creek following a ZX6 at 95 mph.
Too late to slow down when I saw him get air. His buddy posted on their web page " what happened to old guy on the FJR ?". ZX6 boy said, "he was cool and stayed on my tail, we had a nice ride".

Not really having any issues, was just going to check the "correct preload"
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by Hppants »

Good advice on this thread - thanks for the info.

As for my bike, the only reason I know about the Tapered Bearings is the dealer I bought the bike from printed the warranty info, and this was the only thing done to my bike besides the 600 mile initial service. It was done under warranty, and the dealer replaced the OEM bearings with tapered bearings.

FWIW - I can't tell the difference between the two in performance.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by Blueridgerider »

I recently bought a 2016 with just 10K on it and after replacing the tires with a set of Michelin GT's it had the dreaded wobble. I had a set of All Balls installed and it still had a slight wobble and we found the front tire was defective. Michelin replaced it under warranty and the wobble was gone.

I thought I was a happy camper until to took the bike on a 500 mile trip to the mountains. The wobble was gone but the bearings loosened up. When coming to a stop and applying the brakes it was clunky and very loose. After doing some research it seems that it is common to have to retorque the bearings especially after All Balls are installed. It seems as if this is supposed to be regular maintenance as well. The great video below was very detailed. I bought the tool off Ebay and was able to torque everything properly. Torque to 38 then back off and retorque to 13. Fairly easy work that maybe took a half hour. This bike is fantastic now, the front end is rock solid with no hint of a wobble at any speed. It was a journey to get it straight but am glad I stuck with it to get it right. I hope this helps.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2+ ... &FORM=VIRE
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by gixxerjasen »

Blueridgerider wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:07 pm After doing some research it seems that it is common to have to retorque the bearings especially after All Balls are installed. It seems as if this is supposed to be regular maintenance as well.
That's kinda sort of in the owners manual as well, so yes, it is regular maintenance.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by Blueridgerider »

gixxerjasen wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:36 pm
Blueridgerider wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:07 pm After doing some research it seems that it is common to have to retorque the bearings especially after All Balls are installed. It seems as if this is supposed to be regular maintenance as well.
That's kinda sort of in the owners manual as well, so yes, it is regular maintenance.
Hey I am new to the FJR, doing a lot of improvements, and learning all the time. I was stating what was said in the video I watched.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by gixxerjasen »

Blueridgerider wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:18 pm
gixxerjasen wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:36 pm
Blueridgerider wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:07 pm After doing some research it seems that it is common to have to retorque the bearings especially after All Balls are installed. It seems as if this is supposed to be regular maintenance as well.
That's kinda sort of in the owners manual as well, so yes, it is regular maintenance.
Hey I am new to the FJR, doing a lot of improvements, and learning all the time. I was stating what was said in the video I watched.
Sorry, was pointing out that you should be doing it whether you have tapered bearings or stock.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by wheatonFJR »

Gixxerjasen has lots of sound advice on front forks too. It's like he could put on a damn clinic. :D
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by gixxerjasen »

wheatonFJR wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:34 am Gixxerjasen has lots of sound advice on front forks too. It's like he could put on a damn clinic. :D
An entire course on what NOT to do. :D
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by wheatonFJR »

gixxerjasen wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:20 am
wheatonFJR wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:34 am Gixxerjasen has lots of sound advice on front forks too. It's like he could put on a damn clinic. :D
An entire course on what NOT to do. :D
I would sign up...if there were photos and commentary.
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by FastJoyRide »

Just searching for the next thunderstick all the time, ain't ya Wheatie?
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Re: Tapered Bearing Torque ?

Post by wheatonFJR »

:D :D
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