Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

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bill lumberg
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Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by bill lumberg » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:09 pm

Changing oil and final drive fluid today. No one has changed either but me, always torqued to proper specs. Today, when I removed the FD drain bolt, there was weird shit in the threads in one spot. My initial thought was- did wheat shit in my threads? But I don’t think he could have gotten to them. Plus, he stuff is silver.
What is this, and should I be concerned?

ETA- I picked it out. And it’s what the British call aluminium. Looks like it anyway. Por que?
https://lumberg.smugmug.com/Tech/i-kW8t27g

https://lumberg.smugmug.com/Tech/i-Wsnbs36
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by gixxerjasen » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:33 pm

Al you min eee yum?
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by bigjohnsd » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:11 pm

Don't overtighten when you put it back in.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by Red » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:55 pm

Bill,

Looks like a housing thread came out on the bolt. Chances are, other threads in the housing are fractured, as well. I would vote for a Heli-Coil. You also might find a larger drain plug, so that you can simply drill and tap the housing for a larger plug. Fill the drill bit and the tap with a heavy grease, to catch any metal shavings, and replace that grease in the tooling several times, while doing the job. If a larger plug would be your choice, look at the Imperial sizes, that may be between the 14mm drain plug and the next larger Metric size.

FWIW, I am a proponent of using RTV on drain plug crush washers to prevent leaks, rather than any overly serious torque value. Snug plus a little can do the job nicely, with RTV. I also recommend the use of safety wire (rather than excessive torque), to keep the oil plugs from coming out on the road. Then, you will be bulletproof, there.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by bill lumberg » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:02 pm

Thanks guys. Tightened to spec every time since I’ve owned it. If I find more on subsequent changes, going to have to get it recorded for warranty/posterity. Any work done will be yamaha’s responsibility. The FD drain plug has always felt sketchy. I think this was boogered from the factory because, for the first time, the plug goes in smoothly without any resistance. There was always one spot of resistance before. At over 82,000 miles, I’m surprised to have something so basic (threads-okay, one thread) fail. It has never and still doesn’t leak. We shall see.

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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by wheatonFJR » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:13 pm

bill lumberg wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:09 pm
My initial thought was- did wheat shit in my threads?
Yes. Yes, I did.

I eat steel and shit Alyoumineeum.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by raYzerman » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:02 pm

Get your flashlight out and check the rest of the mating threads maybe only the first one broke, which is no biggie. When using crush washers, toss your torque wrench, when the washer starts crushing give it a 1/4 turn more, you're done. Anything beyond that is crushing the crush and making a flat washer.. I'm not a fan of flattened steel crush washers, would rather have flat aluminum washers, torqued snug until you feel aluminum being displaced (no more than 20 ft. lbs.). One 35 cent aluminum washer will last you for years.
As well, if you're changing final drive oil every oil change, that's too often. Yamaha says 2 years, but I say once at end of every riding year. It will save wear and tear on your threads.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by bill lumberg » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:34 pm

17 foot lbs is spec. If that’s too much,
It’s yamaha’s problem. Re:wear and tear- I’ll definitely stop changing FD fluid if it will help yamaha’s defect from worsening while I own the bike. For the miles I ride, spec is much more frequent than every two years, but doing it very oil change is obviously excessive.

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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by raYzerman » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:29 pm

17 is just fine. I suspect the rest of your threads are just fine, the first thread may have been fractured by the tapping process, if the rest are fine, then no worries, nor would I call it a Yamaha defect... it can happen... alloy castings are porous by nature although measures are taken to prevent as much of that as possible. Don't worry too much about the mileage on FD oil, people rarely change it in their autos and it lasts forever..... the issue on bikes is the vent is open to atmosphere and moisture can get in causing it to look milky, if you ride in heavy rain a lot (or commute short distances where it won't heat up enough to evaporate that moisture), perhaps change it twice a year if it looks milky.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by Hppants » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 pm

If things go to crapola, and you are so inclined, I’ve got a perfectly fine pumpkin housing. The stuff inside of it is questionable, but the housing is perfect.

Long story.....
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by HotRodZilla » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:39 am

Don't use a torque wrench on wet threads. If the threads are lubed, what the wrench thinks is 17lbs is significantly higher. This is what has led to so many people stripping out their oil pan drain bolt. It's not a defect, it's user error. Shit happens.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by bill lumberg » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:27 am

Shit happens. In this case, that shit is minor, and Yamaha picks up the tab if it worsens. I don’t categorize doing.l things to manufacturer spec as user error. But I’ve definitely changed the drive fluid more often than Yamaha requires. Thanks for the helpful replies.

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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by rbentnail » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:05 pm

If you go to Advance Auto or Auto Zone, you can get 14mm washers with bonded rubber o-rings. Use 1 to replace your crush washer, then about 4 ft lbs will seal it. I've done this since my first FD oil change in 2009- never leaks, never comes loose but I also do NOT use a torque wrench for minor small stuff like this. IMHO aluminium threads are no place to use a torque wrench ever.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by Hppants » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:47 pm

And now for a counterpoint.

I performed the 600 mile service on my (then) brand new '14, including the final drive oil. Little known to me, about 300 miles later, the drain plug vibrated its way loose and knocked a riding buddy in the chest. I then proceeded to run about 25 miles at 80 mph with NO oil in the pumpkin.

With help from some outboard motor oil, using the fill plug as a temporary drain plug, and a fishing cork as a fill plug, I got home.

I replaced the entire pumpkin assy for peace of mind.

My point is this - in my stupidity and carelessness, I neglected to tighten the drain plug enough and it could have cost me my life. Now, everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) on the motorcycle gets torqued every single time.

Your mileage may vary....
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by wheatonFJR » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:37 pm

Please don't tell me my mileage may vary...I want all the mileage AND all the horsepower.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by bill lumberg » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:31 am

The fishing cork makes that story. I torque to manual specs (or slightly below) for just that sort of reason.
Hppants wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:47 pm
And now for a counterpoint.

I performed the 600 mile service on my (then) brand new '14, including the final drive oil. Little known to me, about 300 miles later, the drain plug vibrated its way loose and knocked a riding buddy in the chest. I then proceeded to run about 25 miles at 80 mph with NO oil in the pumpkin.

With help from some outboard motor oil, using the fill plug as a temporary drain plug, and a fishing cork as a fill plug, I got home.

I replaced the entire pumpkin assy for peace of mind.

My point is this - in my stupidity and carelessness, I neglected to tighten the drain plug enough and it could have cost me my life. Now, everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) on the motorcycle gets torqued every single time.

Your mileage may vary....

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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by Hppants » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:23 am

When one finds himself in the middle of a river flood plain, at a gas station/bait-n-tackle shop, one must find the courage to make lemonade.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by Harald » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:36 pm

I'm kinda late to the game here, but just want to add a thought on torque wrenches. If you're using a torque wrench that goes from, say 15 to 200 lbs and set it at 17 you'll probably be way off 17 ft/lbs torque. Torque wrenches are notoriously off at either ends of their range.

BTW, I'm still using the flat copper washer from the auto parts store that I installed when my 07 was new and it's still not leaking at 135,000 miles. Same type of washer is on my engine oil drain plug too. :)

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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by wheatonFJR » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:19 pm

Copper washers will rust and turn your 2007 bright green.
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Re: Weird Final Drive Bolt Anomaly

Post by Uncle Hud » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:17 pm

Hell yeah! I want a bright green FJR!
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