Ohlin's or Penske?

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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by wpbfjr » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:11 pm

raYzerman wrote:FYI, the Traxxion fork springs are a plug and play kit, the spacers come pre-cut and you just replace your old springs. Cheaper than other kits where you have to do the work......
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by basicjim » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:52 pm

escapefjrtist wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:31 pm
natehawk750 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:58 am
Slightly modified as in the bolt is supplied? Or I have to modify? Would I have to source out the bolt from penske?
I believe Penske is now using an R6 design clevis and supplies a new bottom bolt.

~G
Can confirm. Had my Penske shock rebuilt. They replaced the clevis with one from the R6 and sent a new bolt. No issues and they were a pleasure to deal with.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by 1911 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:45 pm

I talked to Cogent a couple months ago about rebuilding my Penske. They were honest about the potential for a long turn around.They were concerned about getting it apart and needing something they didn't have on hand. I think they are primarily an Ohlins shop. Traxxion was pretty busy with a couple week turnaround too but when I asked about doing a ride in they said they had an opening that week. I jumped on the ride in. I've got the Traxxion front spring set up in the forks already. 850 kg shock spring, 1.1 kg fork springs. I like this setup loaded heavy two up and riding good fun roads with enthusiasm but solo and light it does get a bit harsh on expansion joints and smaller bumps. At the end of the day during that 1 1/2 hour on the boring roads getting home from the mountains I wish I could turn some knobs or push some buttons and soften things up some. I bought my Penske used. If I were buying new I'd go Traxxion for Penske or Cogent for Olhins, leaning toward Olhins for easy preload adj and closer to home.

I'll let you crash at Wheat's if you are visiting Cogent ;)
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by wheatonFJR » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:22 pm

Crashing and Wheats don't go together anymore.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by raYzerman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:30 am

Duane.... 850 Kilograms? You mean lbs.? Why not ask if remote hydraulic preload can be added to the Penske.... it's normally a ~$200+ optional add-on, but I'm not sure if it can be added to yours. Way more convenient as you can then twist a knob and tweak.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by Uncle Hud » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:19 am

Bring a small bottle of Bulleit rye, and use the Hud Motel when visiting Traxxion.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by natehawk750 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:44 am

Man this Forun really reminds me just how easily distracted I am.
I've now talked to both Cogent and Traxxion.
To be honest its pretty much a toss up.
Traxxion is closer to me and I know a few of you guys that are in the area that would lend me a couch so thats a plus. But the Penske doesn't have a remote preload adjustment. With that not much ever canges with the weight of my bike maybe +/- 20 lbs in any scenario. Traxxion has me on the ride in aspect. Traxxiin also has a good reputation with this group so there is that also.

Cogent offers ohlins shock with hydraulic prload adjustment. Thats the biggeat difference.
Cost is relatively the same either way.

So thats where I'm at heavily leaning towards Traxxion.
Now the when is what is yet to be determined.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by raYzerman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:27 pm

The remote hydraulic preloads are usually optional and can be added. If you never need to adjust (i.e., always riding solo), then you don't necessarily need one. You may have to tweak the preload at first to set it for you, maybe not if they got the right spring on there.
As well, you can just buy the shock from whomever and have it shipped to you, spend an hour swapping it out... save the trip. Not quite understanding why you need a ride-in.......
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by natehawk750 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:22 pm

raYzerman wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:27 pm
Not quite understanding why you need a ride-in.......
Cause it gives me a reason to ride my motorcycle and then...

"Oh you know what babe? While I'm just right here in Northern GA. I might as well go break the shock in and really get a good feel for it. You know since I'm just so close to the mountains anyway!"

Geez Ray I thought you were old enough to know better! Stick with me young grass hopper and I'll learn ya some stuff!

Plus with everything this year I have a ton of vacation that's about to roll to next year and I don't know what to do with it.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by raYzerman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:35 pm

I have so much to learn......
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by N4HHE » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:44 am

Balance between front and rear would be a great concern for me as to whether Ohlins or Penske. Can't see doing one end and not both. Cogent doesn't list FJR online, and not much in the way of forks for other motorcycles.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by SkooterG » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:44 am

Any way you go will be a great improvement! I've had Wilbers and Ohlins. I really like my Ohlins on my '09 FJR but I got a screaming deal on it at the time. Unless things have changed, the one downside to an Ohlins is that they don't customize the valving on the shock. While you can get whatever spring you want, when it comes to valving one size fits all. As far as I know, all the others will valve your shock for riding style, weight, ect.. Still, I have really liked my Ohlins. (And Wilbers) Like I said, any of them will be a major improvement. On the forks, I have had Traxxion AK-20s, and Racetech springs and Gold Valves. Both have been great. I would prefer the Traxxion Ak-20s for allowing longer service intervals, but damn those things are spendy!

The lack of remote preload on the Penske is a deal killer for me. Plus I think they are ugly.

If I were shopping new, I would seriously look at a new Wilbers. I like how you can get Hi/Low compression damping and ride height adjustment. Racetech's shock looks very interesting also, but out of my price range.

I would recommend calling Ted at https://www.beemershop.com/. I have never done so, but have had many folks tell me is a wealth of information and comes highly recommened. It sure couldn't hurt to call him and bounce some ideas off him.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by natehawk750 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:54 pm

N4HHE wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:44 am
Balance between front and rear would be a great concern for me as to whether Ohlins or Penske. Can't see doing one end and not both. Cogent doesn't list FJR online, and not much in the way of forks for other motorcycles.
The front end has been resprung with racetech springs by the previous owner. Why the front and not the rear I'm not sure. Im sure that contributes to the incredible pogo effect I experience when cornering. I agree I dont see much use in doing one end and not the other.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by natehawk750 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:05 pm

SkooterG wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:44 am
Any way you go will be a great improvement! I've had Wilbers and Ohlins. I really like my Ohlins on my '09 FJR but I got a screaming deal on it at the time. Unless things have changed, the one downside to an Ohlins is that they don't customize the valving on the shock. While you can get whatever spring you want, when it comes to valving one size fits all. As far as I know, all the others will valve your shock for riding style, weight, ect.. Still, I have really liked my Ohlins. (And Wilbers) Like I said, any of them will be a major improvement. On the forks, I have had Traxxion AK-20s, and Racetech springs and Gold Valves. Both have been great. I would prefer the Traxxion Ak-20s for allowing longer service intervals, but damn those things are spendy!

The lack of remote preload on the Penske is a deal killer for me. Plus I think they are ugly.

If I were shopping new, I would seriously look at a new Wilbers. I like how you can get Hi/Low compression damping and ride height adjustment. Racetech's shock looks very interesting also, but out of my price range.

I would recommend calling Ted at https://www.beemershop.com/. I have never done so, but have had many folks tell me is a wealth of information and comes highly recommened. It sure couldn't hurt to call him and bounce some ideas off him.
I'm not fond of not having a remote preload adjuster as well with the Penske. However I'm a self proclaimed Long Distance rider my bike set up or load never changes more than a few unnoticeable lbs. My bike is for solo use due to my aux fuel cell even if removed for 2 up with my kids then the kid weighs about the same as the full aux tank, my wife never rides with me as she prefers to ride her own bike, and my load never changes i pack the same weather I'm going on a short weekend jaunt or a month long trip.

I did email Ted with no response... maybe a call is in order... he did build a shock for me for one of my beemers a few years back and it was fantastic.

Another reason for wanting to do a ride in is so i can have my bike and gear loaded and possibly talking a tech to actually get the sag set properly while I'm there shouldn't be too difficult to do.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by raYzerman » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:10 am

Back to basics.... the OEM FJR-A shock has two springs, a short one on top (smaller coils) and a long one on the bottom (larger diameter coils).. Judging by Yamaha spec listing, the lower one is K1 - 976 lbs with a stroke of 0-42mm. Top one is K2 - 1952 lbs with a stroke 42-60mm or 18 mm. The overall spring rate calculation of two springs in series (SOFT setting) is 651 lbs. This is too soft for most. On the HARD setting, the mechanism preloads the upper spring, more or less taking it out of the equation, you end up with 900-something. Too hard for most (one up). Can't win.
For those that care, the formula for two springs in series is [(K1)(K2)] / [(K1+K2)].

Pogoing is simply the rate of compression and rebound, so the only way to control it is to dial in the rebound adjuster to roughly 5-7 clicks out. You're really trying to put lipstick on a pig and it's a huge compromise.

I've not seen a dual spring setup on any bike before, all aftermarkets are a single rate spring made for your weight... a 200 lb rider needs 800-850, which then allows less damping control for the plusher yet in control ride. This is why we rave about aftermarket shocks.

I don't care which brand... you should have compression and rebound adjusters separately. The less featured have a rebound adjuster that will move compression along with it (another compromise) depending on their valve design. The best ones have low and high speed compression adjusters and a rebound adjuster (usually on a remote reservoir, one hose). RaceTech G3 has two hoses with the remote incorporating hydraulic preload.

Just from experience, you should pick a spring at the lower end of the rate for your weight, with a hydraulic preload adjuster so you can tweak it to ideal for you. You can't "unload" a spring that is too hard, but you can preload a spring that is a tad soft, and nothing wrong with that. When you have to excessively preload it, you lose spring travel.... again, choose the right spring.

IF no remote HPA, then you have to adjust preload with a threaded ring on the shock. If you go two-up, have fun there's very little access... ~G simply removes the Penske, puts on another spring when two-up. I'm lazy, I want HPA as I'm rarely if ever two-up.
RaceTech will have you on harder springs than you should have. Penske's rate table is better. See my suspension matrix.

As for fork springs, it seems it doesn't matter as much to get it perfect. For 200 lbs, most will say 0.95-1.0 springs... Traxxion kit is 1.1 no matter who you are. I have installed such for a 170 lb. rider.... worked great. Fork springs are much much longer than shock springs and are way more plush, which you control with damping. And I'll plug in here the stock damping on FJR forks is fine, has plenty of range... install only the new springs, that's where the bang for the buck is.... save yer damping valve money until you've ridden it another year.... if you want track performance, then you might want aftermarket valving or them spendy cartridges.

About balance... definitely upgrade the fork springs first. The rear will be too soft but dial in the preload, but you'll want the aftermarket at some point. When you do, you just got yourself a new bike.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by wheatonFJR » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:33 pm

Thank you teacher. Reminds me of the basics which I’m no good at remembering.

Now, can we move on to fork seals? Uhhh, okay...never mind.

Seriously, thanks for the 101 course.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by escapefjrtist » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:47 pm

raYzerman wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:10 am
<<<<Big Snip>>>> IF no remote HPA, then you have to adjust preload with a threaded ring on the shock. If you go two-up, have fun there's very little access... ~G simply removes the Penske, puts on another spring when two-up. I'm lazy, I want HPA as I'm rarely if ever two-up.
RaceTech will have you on harder springs than you should have. Penske's rate table is better. See my suspension matrix.
FWIW you guys are over thinking hydraulic preload...nice to have but IMO seldom used. Just my $.02! I’m going to disagree with Ray in that there’s plenty of room to spin the Penske preload collar. Is it tight, sure. As long as the shock has the needle thrust bearing it’s really not a big deal. Full disclosure: I like Penske’s due to their performance, simplicity and I have gathered the tools to rebuild them. Since I have two, it saves me $500 - $600 a year in rebuild costs. No brainer for me. The latest 8987 triple adjustable I scored is fabulous.

Regarding my extra spring for two-up. I go from 850# to 950#, and swap spring with the shock in place. Loosen the preload collar, remove the bottom clevis and spring seat and the spring falls off. Reassemble in reverse order. Takes me less than 30 minutes. I have big springs for both FJR and Tenere.

~G
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by SkooterG » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:30 pm

I use the hydraulic preload quite often. One up vs two up. And even local riding vs one up loaded for a trip. I am going to disagree with Ray about fork valving. While I agree the forks don't make as big a deal as the shock to overall performance, my first foray was Wilber springs only. And later, the Traxxion AK-20s I had, and the Racetech valving I have now are fare superior to the springs only improvement.

Edit: I also disagree with Ray about the stock FJR fork damping. For me, the stock forks damping are inadequate. I could not dial in enough rebound damping. At least on the Gen I and Gen II. I haven't tried on the Gen III + yet.
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Re: Ohlin's or Penske?

Post by raYzerman » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:59 pm

You are entitled to disagree, your experience is your experience and your needs are your needs. ~90% will do with the stock fork valving... I'd venture something was amiss if you couldn't get enough rebound, you should be able to dial it until you have none or at least too little. Perhaps the Wilbers are progressive springs? Less than 5 clicks out is too hard. Depends how you ride, if aggressive, then you may want aftermarket valving in the forks.. or you can up the fork oil to say 7.5W.
My experience with RaceTech fork valving was.. meh... didn't do much for me. I'm sure I'd love AK-20's, but not for those $$.
Rear shock, no brainer for me, aftermarket trumps all. I used the HPA a lot when two up, and it also gave me three-way damping adjustment (RaceTech). I know what G is up to with the spring change and he certainly has it down..... call me lazy but I'll pay for HPA first.
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