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Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:08 pm
by Steel_Gin
Had the forks rebuilt (Traxxion springs) as well as put on a Penske 8983 w/remote on the rear. (Thanks Ray!!) Didn't realized how much it was needed until it was done. Much like Cav it degrades slowly, you just adapt and get used to it wallowing through the corners. It has taken most of last season to try and break those habits I had/have to get through the corners.......it could is also be because of a lack of riding skills but that's a different topic. :D

Asked a lot of questions and called a few places about fork springs. Ended up going with Traxxion based on my phone conversations, very nice guys there. Went with Penske since I had seen so many people on the forums happy with them, outside of the clevis issue I don't recall reading about any failures and if I had to sell it, it would be an easy sale. Used ones on the forum usually don't stay for sale long.

Only complaint on the Penske is the remote, a bit of a pain to find a good mounting point and the mount isn't as clean as I'd like it to be. If the backpack wasn't so much more expensive I'd recommend getting it. Once you have it mounted securely it's a non-issue. The mounting of the remote very much is my lack of time with wrenches in my hand and thinking of place/way to mount it. With that said the suspension rebuild was worth every penny!!

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:06 pm
by bungie4
Hey Pants, if you decide to go with Traxxion, let me know, I'll send you a discount coupin ($50?) I won at EOM a while back. I don't think it's got an expiry on it.

Oh ya, nothing wrong with Hagon either. A reputable brand that has been around for ages.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:25 pm
by 1911
I got a used Penske 8983 off the forum that happened to be sprung for my weight. I called Traxxion and told them to send me fork springs to match. The rest of the fork internals are still OEM. I'm one very happy Squid.

You are about to be living right up the road from Traxxion, aren't you ?

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:56 am
by Hppants
I noticed the OEM part number is changed - replacement is “50” over original, which is “00”. Well, technically BigJohn tipped me off to the change.

Would anyone fathom a guess as to what the change is? Presuming it’s an improvement?

Wheatie - did you install you OEM replacement yet? What can you say about any improvement?

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:24 am
by raYzerman
No real change that I'm aware of, but Yamaha didn't publish spring data for 2016+. Presumably change of supplier (KYB, IIRC, but don't quote me). A new shock will feel improved over a tired one. If you're close to 200 lbs., you need an 800-850 spring, with adjustable preload should you want to tweak it in. OEM spring rate 650 ain't enough and you can't dial it in. Hard setting 985 is too much for one-up.
Mr. Pants, one question where do you have your current shock's rebound set?

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:53 am
by Pterodactyl
I recently replaced the OE shock on my 2013 with a Yamaha shock with the new part number. Now a caveat, what I know about shocks and suspension tuning is similar to what I know about neurosurgery. Visually the new shock is identical to what I took off. I was surprised to see that the new one came with the adjuster attached: I had removed and cleaned the old adjuster in preparation for installing it on the new shock. The rubber boot that covers the top of the shock was not included. I shopped around and the best deal I found was from Partzilla; $328 with free shipping (pretty sure they are a wholly owned subsidiary of the HotRodZilla Conglomerate). The removal and instalation process is quite easy. I have not ridden the bike with the new shock installed, but just sitting on the bike I found that it felt a bit taller. I suspect the new spring is not sagging as much but had not considered that this shock could have a spring rated for a higher weight. I was running the old shock on hard most of the time, but when I sat on the bike with the new shock I had it set on soft. I have the compression and rebound both adjusted to about 1/3 of the available adjustment from their hardest setting. On the old tired shock I was running the rebound set a couple of clicks from the hardest setting.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:27 pm
by raYzerman
The new shock would have sat uncompressed until installed. The springs don't really get very tired over time, a tad maybe, but when it's already undersprung for many, when you lose a bit of tension, you are the one "tired" of it with time. OTOH, a bit of "tired" on a proper spring for your weight will be much less if any noticeable "loss".
As for damping, the OE is a compromise... to compensate for weak spring, the Standard setting of damping (12 clicks out, very mild) needs to be dialed in some more. I'm 200 and have the rebound at 6 clicks out (then tweak to your preference), but it's still a compromise and no substitute for an aftermarket. I would vote in the Penske camp as they seem quite universal. My RaceTech came oversprung (their recommendation is on the hard side for sure), but I had it resprung to an 850 at a local suspension shop. Golden now.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:50 pm
by Hppants
My rebound dampening setting was about 2-4 clicks in from center. I'm not 100% sure if that is contributing to my problem or not, but the rebound characteristics of the bike do not seem to be a concern for me. Really, my only concern is that it would appear that my ride height is a tad lower than before, and in the twisties where there are bumps near and around the apex of the curves, I get more "pogo stick effect" than I used to. In my mind, both of these might be attributed to a spring that is getting fatigued, and/or worn oil in the shock. It is not leaking.

I've emailed RockyMountain ATV to see if they can tell me technically what the superseded part number means. Will share with the group anything I find.

Also, I sent an email to this guy, on recommendation from someone in the other sandbox:

http://www.smsuspensionsystems.com/#/contact/4569827795

He called me yesterday (Saturday) and spent 15 minutes on the phone with me, answering questions and making recommendations. I thought that was real nice of him, considering the weekend. Of course, he recommends altering both the front and rear suspension. He indicates that for my weight (210 pounds), and including 100 pounds for a full top box and camping bag on the pillion seat, I need a spring that is in the neighborhood of 1000 pounds. He quoted me "about $1,500.00) to re-do the stock shock, including a new spring, new seals, new oil, and reworked dampening internals, as well as new Race tech fork springs and valving, along with new oil and fork seals and bushings. Of course, I can change the fork springs myself, which could save me a couple hundred bucks. Regardless, I'm just not too crazy about spending $1,500.00 on my bike with 50K on it.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 pm
by wheatonFJR
Hppants wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:50 pm
...Regardless, I'm just not too crazy about spending $1,500.00 on my bike with 50K on it.
Well, you can look at it that way...or you can say that the 50k miles put that wear into your suspension and that for $1500 you are getting a new bike, or better than new. I am not sure who should do your suspension work, but the $1500 will make the twisties that much more fun. Best $$ you can spend on a bike imo.

I will likely put on the new shock this summer, and at the same time have Traxxion or Cogent do the forks.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:19 pm
by raYzerman
Pants, I can tell you right now 1000 lbs spring is way too much. 950 was too much for me. I doubt you have 100 lbs in gear, weigh it. Go 900 lbs spring max. with a remote preload adjuster.
As for your existing damping, settings are done by number of clicks out from fully closed, not the middle.
I would not spend any money on fork damping until you evaluated new straight rate springs. Traxxion 1.0 or 1.1.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:27 pm
by 1911
Hppants wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:50 pm
My rebound dampening setting was about 2-4 clicks in from center. I'm not 100% sure if that is contributing to my problem or not, but the rebound characteristics of the bike do not seem to be a concern for me. Really, my only concern is that it would appear that my ride height is a tad lower than before, and in the twisties where there are bumps near and around the apex of the curves, I get more "pogo stick effect" than I used to. In my mind, both of these might be attributed to a spring that is getting fatigued, and/or worn oil in the shock. It is not leaking.

I've emailed RockyMountain ATV to see if they can tell me technically what the superseded part number means. Will share with the group anything I find.

Also, I sent an email to this guy, on recommendation from someone in the other sandbox:

http://www.smsuspensionsystems.com/#/contact/4569827795

He called me yesterday (Saturday) and spent 15 minutes on the phone with me, answering questions and making recommendations. I thought that was real nice of him, considering the weekend. Of course, he recommends altering both the front and rear suspension. He indicates that for my weight (210 pounds), and including 100 pounds for a full top box and camping bag on the pillion seat, I need a spring that is in the neighborhood of 1000 pounds. He quoted me "about $1,500.00) to re-do the stock shock, including a new spring, new seals, new oil, and reworked dampening internals, as well as new Race tech fork springs and valving, along with new oil and fork seals and bushings. Of course, I can change the fork springs myself, which could save me a couple hundred bucks. Regardless, I'm just not too crazy about spending $1,500.00 on my bike with 50K on it.
Before you install a 1000 pound (kg???) spring, test ride somebody else's. I'm 185 and have an 850 spring. Two up and loaded heavy, this is NOT undersprung. Solo, I love this setup when riding aggressively. When I'm riding less aggressively solo this is just a little harsh on expansion joints and small stuff. Tradeoffs, no way around them, until you go ES. It would be awesome to ride a marshmallow on the Interestates and boring roads and then flip a switch to this setup when I get to the fun stuff.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:41 pm
by Pterodactyl
raYzerman wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:27 pm
The new shock would have sat uncompressed until installed. The springs don't really get very tired over time, a tad maybe, but when it's already undersprung for many, when you lose a bit of tension, you are the one "tired" of it with time. OTOH, a bit of "tired" on a proper spring for your weight will be much less if any noticeable "loss".
As for damping, the OE is a compromise... to compensate for weak spring, the Standard setting of damping (12 clicks out, very mild) needs to be dialed in some more. I'm 200 and have the rebound at 6 clicks out (then tweak to your preference), but it's still a compromise and no substitute for an aftermarket. I would vote in the Penske camp as they seem quite universal. My RaceTech came oversprung (their recommendation is on the hard side for sure), but I had it resprung to an 850 at a local suspension shop. Golden now.
I’ll readjust the dampening. I was thinking about the front when I mentioned compression dampening.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:30 pm
by gixxerjasen
And buy an aftermarket shock before you rebuild that stock shock for those prices!

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:40 pm
by Hppants
Not going to rebuild the stock shock for that price. That much is for sure.

Regarding clicks on the dampening, all I remember is that I counted the total number of clicks on the shock and started in the middle. Then I went both ways for the full range to see the changes. I ended up settling on a few clicks in from the middle.

I know that my camping bag weighs 25-ish pounds packed. I would imagine each saddle bag has 15-20 each. And the top box has at least 30. All told, pretty close to 100 pounds total, I would think. 75 for sure.

Ray - if you don't mind me asking, what is your weight?

When the bike was new, "hard" setting was too much by myself not loaded. Hard was pretty good fully loaded, but if I get aggressive in the twisties, I feel that I could use a bit more. Now, I run it on hard pretty much all of the time. And fully loaded, it's to "pogo-ey".

Am I correct in assuming that the spring has gotten fatigued? (i.e. - metal fatigue)?

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:50 pm
by raYzerman
I'm 200 without gear. Normal loading for me is top box 15+ lbs. Saddlebags 20 lbs. not counting saddlebags themselves as they are part of the bike. Probably your rebound is around 10 clicks out, too pogey, try 6. Read Owner's manual 4-39, 40, full in, then out. Total number of clicks can vary, so not accurate. Full in accurate, valve closed.

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:12 pm
by bigjohnsd
raYzerman wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:24 am
Hard setting 985 is too much for one-up.
Speak for yourself Feather Butt!

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:19 am
by Hppants
Hagon has quoted me $545.00 for a rebuildable shock sprung to my weight/riding conditions, compression/rebound dampening adjustment, hydraulic pre-load, a 2-year guarantee, shipped from England to my door.

I'm waiting to hear from R/M ATV re: improvements/changes to the superseded part number for the stock shock (not expecting much).

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:04 pm
by bigjohnsd
Hppants wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:19 am
Hagon has quoted me $545.00 for a rebuildable shock sprung to my weight/riding conditions, compression/rebound dampening adjustment, hydraulic pre-load, a 2-year guarantee, shipped from England to my door.

I'm waiting to hear from R/M ATV re: improvements/changes to the superseded part number for the stock shock (not expecting much).
RM ATV will have no idea on the change made to the Yamaha shock. Your best bet is to ask Yamaha on their Customer Relations
Line (800) 962-7926 but don't expect an answer quick.

For the price, the Hagon seems like a good deal to me. Better dampening adjustment and the correct spring would be worth #200 more to me. YMMV

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:56 pm
by Hppants
Right you are, John. RM ATV had no advice. I'll try Yammie C/R and see what they say.

Obviously, I've got more time than money...… or sense!!

Re: Aftermarket Rear Shock

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:00 pm
by bigjohnsd
Hppants wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:56 pm
Right you are, John. RM ATV had no advice. I'll try Yammie C/R and see what they say.

Obviously, I've got more time than money...… or sense!!
You already sounds retired