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Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:49 am
by Cav47
Hppants wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:34 am
Two-fiddy? Dang, man! That South Carolinian fried chicken is pretty darn good, no?

My '14A is gonna cross 50K either this weekend or the next. Now that I think about it, the rear shock ain't what it used to be. I'm not opposed to the upgrade, it's taking the entire back end of the bike apart that's worrisome.

Replacing the rear shock is a laughable task. Takes me 20 min now. I had to do that a few times with the 04 as I swapped it out between the Penske. It really is a easy job. Might have taken me an hour the first time. That included pictures and watching Youtube and calling TominPA.

Your mileage will not vary ....(at least longer)

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:12 am
by ionbeam
250 lbs/113kg(.03 elephants) and you are worried about the spring rate? Riding two-up while packed for a 2 week trip we are at the weight limit of the FJR. Should we have already died? Why does the FJR have such a high weight limit if the spring is over matched at 250 lbs? :stickpoke: When two-up I have problems with excessive inertia(!) in the twisties but don't have handling or ground clearance problems. At EOM '18, did garyahouse or Brody find my pace limited by my suspension? :mrgreen:

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:57 am
by wheatonFJR
Griff is well over 6ft...so he carries that 250 like nuttin.

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:03 am
by griff
My meager understanding of Yamaha suspensions is that they are typically undersprung - so that is why I would look at the spring if refurbishing that rear shock. That and with 115 K miles on that shock tends to make me believe that everything needs a going over.

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:27 pm
by wheatonFJR
griff wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:03 am
My meager understanding of Yamaha suspensions is that they are typically undersprung - so that is why I would look at the spring if refurbishing that rear shock. That and with 115 K miles on that shock tends to make me believe that everything needs a going over.
I think my '13 shock was pretty good for me. At 40K plus miles, it's starting to need help in the twisties...so I will be looking to spend $$$ at Traxion this winter on shock and forks. I hate to send them in now...because the weather will probably turn GREAT as soon as I send them off.

Griff, I don't know how you've put up with that shock for 115k miles. Does it act like a hard tail now?

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:31 pm
by bungie4
The problem with suspension aging is that you don't really notice it until the fuckery makes itself known by doing bad shit (wobbles, tracking, bottoming etc). Its only when you replace it does the bulb click.

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:37 pm
by wheatonFJR
bungie4 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:31 pm
The problem with suspension aging is that you don't really notice it until the fuckery makes itself known by doing bad shit (wobbles, tracking, bottoming etc). Its only when you replace it does the bulb click.
I noticed when I couldn't keep up with jwilly. That there is also a sure sign.

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:43 pm
by bungie4
wheatonFJR wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:37 pm
bungie4 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:31 pm
The problem with suspension aging is that you don't really notice it until the fuckery makes itself known by doing bad shit (wobbles, tracking, bottoming etc). Its only when you replace it does the bulb click.
I noticed when I couldn't keep up with jwilly. That there is also a sure sign.
Probably a good thing.. FJR's are terrible offroad.

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:16 pm
by Cav47
wheatonFJR wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:57 am
Griff is well over 6ft...so he carries that 250 like nuttin.

I do not believe Griff is 250. Maybe with all the gear on, tank bag, and contents of luggage.


And what Bungie said about not noticing until you replace it is the truth. The difference between my worn out 04 at 60K was noticeable, but I learn to adapt to it over a period of time. When the Penske(that was a little worn anyway) was such a huge change, it changed the way I set up corners and the amount of confidence was staggering.

The re-learning curve was steep but very worth it.

When I jumped to the ES that only had about 20K miles on it, I had to relearn the bike again. I have chased some really fast guys on this board. I know I would have never been able to keep them in sight with the 04 regardless of my abilities.

Suspension is everything.

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:13 pm
by griff
wheatonFJR wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:27 pm
Griff, I don't know how you've put up with that shock for 115k miles. Does it act like a hard tail now?
Gittin used to the Harley I'm gona git :lol:

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:58 pm
by wheatonFJR
Cav47 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:16 pm
wheatonFJR wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:57 am
Griff is well over 6ft...so he carries that 250 like nuttin.

I do not believe Griff is 250....
As you can see, Griff is a bit taller than I am...he's a veritable Giant.
Image

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:23 pm
by griff
wheatonFJR wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:58 pm
Cav47 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:16 pm
wheatonFJR wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:57 am
Griff is well over 6ft...so he carries that 250 like nuttin.

I do not believe Griff is 250....
As you can see, Griff is a bit taller than I am...he's a veritable Giant.
Image
Haha - I do look big in that picture. By that way, do I see Trooper Fenwick in the background? :lol:

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:27 pm
by raYzerman
Perhaps we need a separate thread so we don't hijack this one...... so briefly, hang in there...... see Suspension Matrix..... http://www.fjriders.com/forums/viewtopi ... =60&t=2373
True that the light bulb comes on as bungie says. First rule of suspension, the springs have to carry the weight of bike and rider properly. If it doesn't you are playing with settings trying vainly to get it to carry your weight, if those settings exist.... it's a compromise. Ignore damping for the moment, talks springs only. For 200 lb. rider, we need 1.0 fork springs, 800-850 lb. rear shock spring (despite what the matrix says). Talking from experience and spending money to find out what works. With a little bit of preload, the spring coils will remain nicely spaced and give you a plush enough ride, to which you can add damping to essentially control any pogo effect, the idea being use the least amount of damping it takes to get the job done.
We can discuss A vs ES, but in keeping with this thread... ES rear shock has a 685 lbs. spring, good for ~160-ish lb.rider, but you can add preload. For two up, pretty much maxed out, and I know several one-uppers run at two-up preload settings. Any discussion on damping will just complicate things, so let's just say........ ES needs more spring on the back end, and once you have it, damping can be set to something more suitable for the nicer ride (again, any talk of ES damping will just bring out another set of complications... the whole thing is a compromise).
As for the A rear shock, you have (on Soft) the equivalent of a 651 lb. spring, with no preload option except to dial in Hard (976 lbs). Neither is likely to be good one-up, so you dial in rebound damping, a compromise also..... no sense re-springing an A shock, go aftermarket so you get some preload adjustment you can tweak...

Re: ES fork and shock rebuilds

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:46 pm
by wheatonFJR
Thanks for relinking that thread...I totally alzheimered that one away.